This article feels incomplete because it should of included the Creative Zen.

Zune brothers....The Zune Armada wants YOU!!!

BOO!!! HISSS!!!!

Frankly though, I could care less whether the winner is iPod or Zune; ANY player that lets me copy MY own music without forcing me to use its own DRM-encrusted bloatware should work fine for me.Oh, MP4 support and ability to work as external storage device are welcome too. Alas, I have yet to find my Holy Grail of portable DAP.

(and no, Zune is NOT).

What I just can never understand is fanboys like Ricardo Dawkins volunteering for free PR jobs for their hallowed companies like Microsoft, as if the company's financial gain has actually anything to do with their own.

Color me selfish, but as a consumer, I could care less if Microsoft, Intel, and Wal-Mart all die tommorrow, as long as I can buy better products elsewhere.

I have purchased 3 Zunes. Got them all through Woot dot com for 130.oo. MSFT could have really had an Ipod killer but they held back on the Wifi. OMG, what were they thinking. Internet radio, wireless sync, would have destroyed the ipod. O well, at least i got a good price.

I've used the Ipod Creative Zen Vision and own a Zune. All in all I perfer the Zune. The Zen Vision and Zune are nearly on par but the UI on the Zune is more to my liking. the Ipod IMO is ugly as all hell. I refuse to use any touch Wheel/Scroller so an Ipod is out of the equation for me.

I think The Zune should not have been compared to the 80Gig Ipod for the fact that Apple makes a 30 gig at the same price point as the Zune. it's like comparing a 19" LCD to a 21" widescreem LCD. sure the 21" is a better value but is it right to compare it with a 19"?

As for the size, I can understand that. For me it's no big deal, I always ware cargo pants or a jacket with lots of deep pockets.

THe software is no biggie I guess, I would perfer to just toss it on there like I could with my Zen Micro or atleast use WMP11 to sync it but until I can do that I'll be fine.

From what I hear MS isn't nearly finished with the Zune line up. The Zune is in gen1 and the next will be much better and soon the Zune will putting some beat down on the Ipod, It won't kill it but it will hurt it.

TBH I'm getting sick of hearing the word Ipod...most idiotic name ever...even the word Zune sounds better to me.

Ricardo not here to call the iPod dead yet? I'm surprised...

The screen is a little meh, since the resolution's the same anyways (and yeah, I'll be pissed if Apple pulls the same trick on their new iPod generation).

The only tossup I have are the earbuds: I wish they were of better quality yet I know they can't ramp it up to the quality that I want without adding to the price. It's practically an existential debate: can't please the audiophiles, yet Joe Sixpack rarely complains or bothers to look for better buds.

ey Diss, you can get the Zune in pepto pink color (aka baby pink) for better morning bowel movement...:D LOL
http://www.zunescene.com/pink-zune/

and btw, ppl like brown. Who's Zune is that if you don't like brown ?

How about adding a Creative Vision M to the review?

"I'm surely in the minority here, but the iPod's aesthetic has always struck me as something more befitting of dental equipment than a personal media player. The whole look is very clinical, sterile, and almost completely without soul." -Geoff

Thank you. You're the first person I've seen that's mentioned this. Although I own an iPod and enjoy using it, you're exactly right.

Same thing goes for Apple stores - wouldn't surprise me to find a dentist's chair lurking near the genius bar.

Good article. Two things:

1. In the opening paragraph, second sentence, the word "dominance" should be "dominated".

2. The article is great, but it would have been more complete -- and better -- if you had included test results for the 30 gig iPod as well. It's possible to make comparisons between the Zune and 30 gig iPod given the information about which you wrote, but it requires some reading between the lines. It's also a bit misleading to have the 80 gig iPod and Zune compared in graphs, and the 30 gig iPod and Zune compared in text. Different people will come away from this article having learned different things, depending on whether visuals or text more easily catch their eyes. It also presents the Zune in a slightly better light, given that there's no hard data or graphs to compare the Zune to one of its natural competitors, and probably loses to it.

Anyway, pretty good article. There's less hard data and more editorial-ish opinions in this sort of review. That's fine. I wouldn't mind seeing more articles like this. Just don't get too used to it, lest we read future CPU, mobo, or GPU articles and find our editors have gotten soft when it comes to rigorous testing and barraging us with performance tests and cold, hard numbers.

not that i'm a apple fanboi, but the ipod kills the zune in usability. i had to return my zune before i threw it at someone.

Hi, Zune brothers....can you all go to this website and post your 10 most desired features to improve the Zune Generation 1 device.

http://zunefeatures.wordpress.com/

Just register yourself (free) and post the numbers of your most desired features.

If you are a Zunescene member, there is a poll where you can select 10 of these sames improvements/features so the Zune team can see what we want from our digital media players right now or in the future.

http://www.zunescene.com/forums/index.php?topic=14316.0

(is it fine to post this here ? )

Nice to know someone feels like I do about the iPod. I went shopping for a player for my wife, and will admit I didn't research much, just tried out a bunch of players.

I instantly came to the conclusion that the iPod looks nice, but the UI itself, and trying to navigate with the click wheel was annoying.

Got the wife a Samsung T9 (I just wanted a flash player) It looks better than the iPod, functions as a normal removable drive, and has a nice looking screen and UI, I'm happy (plus Jobs doesn't get any of my money)

Apple is like that blond girl in high school that flirts with all of the guys, but ends up sleeping with the english teacher. Looks nice, but ultimately leaves you disappointed.

Thank you so much for the review Geoff! My brother has been looking at 30gig HDD DAPs. This helped persuade me to recommend the Zune, plus he also prefered the zune's tactile buttons over the scroll wheel.

P.S. I saw you recommend the 80gig Ipod, but he didn't want to spend another $100 on extra battery life and space.

Personally, I would buy an eSansa.... But that just was not big enough for him.

TR should keep doing non-DAP reviews...LOL....
Where is the sound quality test from the headphone out ?

Threads on Heafi.org. Zune sound quality or SQ
http://www.head-fi.org/forums/showthread.php?t=211548 (review of Zune from a iPöd user perspective)
http://www.head-fi.org/forums/showthread.php?t=235837
http://www.head-fi.org/forums/showthread.php?t=235580&highlight=Zune
http://www.head-fi.org/forums/showthread.php?t=235383&highlight=Zune (the Kenwood have digital amps)
http://www.head-fi.org/forums/showthread.php?t=234417&highlight=Zune
http://www.head-fi.org/forums/showthread.php?t=234686&highlight=Zune
http://www.head-fi.org/forums/showthread.php?t=233445&highlight=Zune (zune vs Vision M and 5G iPod)
http://www.head-fi.org/forums/showthread.php?t=232538

#20, "You shouldn't need hacks to make the Zune usable to you. "

Tell that to anybody that is using RockBox or the iMod to improve the crappy audio quality from the iPod headphone out and using a digital amp.
www.rockbox.org

Nice review. However I am the proud owner of a Toshiba Gigabeat to replace my broken Rio and Zen micro, I miss the Rio, best sounding MP3 player that I have ever heard.

One thing, does the Zune have gapless playback? I still cannot believe that Apple has yet to add this feature to the iPod.

I ended up getting a sansa from sandisk. Durable as hell, since it still works for me. I just copy paste my songs in too. I hate itunes.

I've never been particularly big on the iPod. I have, however, been a loyal fan of COWON products. I'd an X5 for years and loved it. Some complained of interface issues and the like but honestly I found it much more intuitive than the iPod, Zune or Zen. I sold it about 6 months ago and relied solely upon my iAudio 5, and just last week I purchased the iAudio 6 and the T2.

You can call me a fanboy, and I suppose I do have a little bit of brand-bias when it comes to portable media players, but that's only because COWON makes them so damned well that I don't feel the need to get anything else (I tried the iPod, Z and Z at the behest of my friends, but couldn't get used to them). But hell, I'd been saving money, and I figured, why the hell not? The last 2 COWON products I've owned have been stellar.

BTW, interesting comparo of the two products. If you had a shiny graphic of the Apple logo as a lance trying to poke through a shield emblazoned with the M$ logo, that would have made my day. Or, I guess, in this case it'd be vice-versa. But you get the idea.

So based on your conclusion alone, the iPod faults are basically taste related ("I don't like the look of it", "I don't like the interface") whereas the Zune faults are absolutes (battery life, capacity).

Neither plays FLAC, and that's why I've recently re-ripped my whole CD collection into, so....

Thank you, but I'll pass. :)

I went with Creative Zen and thus got something I can simply download my own songs to my player. No fuss no muss.

So with the various DRM-less MP3's I have on my hard disk, will they run without any issues on the Zune?

Archos are better than those two, goddamit!

lol, it's nice finding a random article here that doesn't really fit the norm every once in awhile (like the cpu cooler reviews).

I guess I don't really listen to music enough to warrant purchasing a mini-player. I do, however, watch a lot of videos. A larger screen appeals to me, then again there are other media players out there with bigger screens that are portable.

But when I start trying to justify buying anything like that I think about buying a laptop and then my justification gets shot down. The only improvement I think they could make on any of these devices is just turn them into giant touch screens. Instead of having buttons and a small screen, just make a entire side a screen. Other then that when you start adding more options things get heavier and when it comes to a portable music player, the walkman standard reigns.

On subject:

http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2006/10/03

http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2007/01/03

Ok, I finally read the whole article. Good article. My biggest gripe was that both players were constantly being referred to as MP3 players. And according to the author the services are going to offer DRM free MP3 format files which is not true. Apple will be offering DRM free AAC files while Microsoft I'm sure will be using WMA. I wouldn't buy MP3's anyway just because they are MP3's.

The term "MP3 player" is so dated now anyway. These players are no longer mere MP3 players. Calling them portable media players would be much more appropriate. I realize I bark about this all the time but AAC really does sound so much better than MP3 at the same bit rate. I know storage is cheap these days but if you have thousands of songs like I do every little bit counts.

I'm curious as to why you didn't include the 30GB iPod on the battery test, as at least in my experience the battery is one of the biggest drawbacks to that particular model. Battery life actually tends to be less than what they advertise - on the order of 6-8 hours rather than its advertised 12-14 - and there have been times when it hasn't been adequate for my needs. And iTunes is no better an interface with the player than any other company's horrific bloatware - in fact, iTunes 7 is decidedly more broken than previous versions. I had to figure out a workaround to get album art working because iTunes kept deleting it. Plus the fact that the center button of the scroll wheel isn't raised means that, for somebody with fat fingers like me, you'll often end up accidentally scrolling something over a notch or two while pressing it, which is stupidly frustrating. Even the 4G iPod had a slightly raised center button, which made a significant difference on that front.

The iPod is, for my uses, still the best player on the market, but it still has a ways to go until I'm truly satisfied with it.

I bought a Zune when they first came out; I'm a giant loser like that.

Since I bought it, I've used it for two primary purposes:

1) It plugs into my car stereo via 3.5mm stereo jack.
and
2) It straps to my arm when I bike ride, and I use Logitech's Wireless headphones.

In both cases, for me, the Ipod would have been better. Why?

1) In case 1, my head unit is compatible with an Ipod; that is, I could have bought a cute little adapter thingy, and controlled the Ipod via the face plate. Big deal? Not really, but just a fact.

2) For case 2, strap selection is much, much better for Ipod; obviously, larger market, many more 3rd party dealers. Also, the Logitech Headphones I bought "fit" the Ipod... with the Zune, it just sort of works.

It all depends on how you use the device. Do I like my Zune? Sure. But I play 100% un-DRMed MP3s, I don't use Zune/URGE/Itunes, so compatibility is never an issue.

Looking back, I should have bought an Ipod. Oh well.

:/ Waiting for Ricardo Dawkins to start the iPod bashing.. :/

Great review Geoff! I agree with some points :

- The included iPod headphones are pure crap and they have always been. Just replace them with a pair of Sennheisers and problem will be solved. Actually this will improve on the Zune headphones as well.

- The touch based interface on the iPod is a step down from the original 1G iPod where there was actually a real WHEEL that you turned. I understand why Apple did it (to make it slimmer) but i'd pick the real wheel over the touch one any day. I'm sure your mom would love the 1G iPod wheel better then the current one as all the navigation problems you mentioned would be solved by it.

- The wireless in the Zune is a waste of battery and space. No doubt about it. It serves absolutely no purpose unless MS fixes it with a future firmware update.

Now here are some other points that you did not mention :

- The Zune software can NOT be installed on Windows XP 64bit. This is unacceptable no matter how you put it especially from the company that makes their own freakin OSes !

- You don't have to use ITunes to transfer songs over to the iPod. In other words, that whole argument with the use of intrusive software should have been a little bit more forgiving when it comes to the iPod. There are sooo many applications out there to do the job and on soo many platforms : Mac, Windows, Linux, etc which brings me to my next point :

- iPod is a multi platform device. It works on almost anything. The Zune only works on Windows and then, only SOME versions of windows.. see above.

- Zune can not be mounted as an external hard drive and be used as such while the iPod can, on any modern OS. This is a biggie. I carry various documents on the iPod like the most recent TV 720p episodes that i share with my friends. Can't do that with a Zune or with a flash drive as those are BIG files.

Yes, your conclusion is right, that currently the iPod IS the superior device but i just wished you would have hammered that message a bit more :)

Once again, great article and i thoroughly enjoyed reading it.

Adi

I don't understand this review. When TR review CPU, graphics cards and mobo they always choose a price range to compare the different choices. So you almost always get in GPU: mid vs. mid. (same price range), low vs low (same price range)

I got my Zune for 220 USD total price. A 80GB iPod should cost 100 USD or so more than the Zune. Add the required (for me) FM tuner and case (LOL) the iPod goes more than 400 USD. Out of my price range and out of the price range of many ppl, too.

You should have reviewed the Zune against the 30GB iPod since:
(or at least included its performance)
1. they have the same hard drive capacity 30GB
2. both are in the same price range

.Why you changed you standard reviews here ?

Or will you review the 30GB iPod against the next generation flash Zune, since the nano and the screen-less shuffle cant' do video ? ummm

This review is done a bit wrong and biased a bit towards the iPod

What we have learned here today folks... it both suck at this point. Buy a Creative Zen or something else.

Also, it's really a shame Zune doesn't just recognize itself as an external storage device that allows you to just drop w/e you want on it (like a pen drive). To me that would just seem more preferable (for someone like me and most people on this site i would imagine). Just have a couple different folders in the device, like "music" and "Movies" or "Video"... w/e. There's no reason at all why this can't be done. I thought that this was the way a Zen interfaces with a computer... might be wrong though. Also this would be nice as you could use it as a really large pen drive too then. Granted you might have to carry a cord around with you, ... but i already carry my entire laptop and power cord around to class with me as is... so tossing a USB cable in the lappy case really isn't a big deal to me.

I have no issues with the iPod scroll wheel, and I have a lot of songs to scroll through. But I guess I am used to it. I never had the issue of slipping on a choice. Though I never did play with a 5th generation iPod.