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derFunkenstein wrote:

So is anybody else watching SportsCenter with the huge A-Rod/Peter Gammons interview? Does anybody really believer he quit in 2003 after a neck injury and that he's clean today? His numbers - and he said this himself - don't really vary all that heavily from one year to the next. It's not like Bonds where there was a sudden, latent power deep within him.

I'm dubious. I'm also curious who's next.

danny e. wrote:

dont all pro athletes take steroids?
yes. yes they do.

ifittakesforever wrote:

I think two things. First, the MLB players association royally screwed up here. They could have had this whole 104 name report destroyed a couple months after it came out back in 2003, or so I've read. Basically, the players association failed to do their one responsibility, protect the union and the players. Now it's yet another black eye for baseball. I'm not saying that this is necessarily a bad thing, but you would think that they would have wanted it gone as fast as they could, not wait around for the Feds to seize it.

Secondly, if A-Rod's name is going to be leaked from this "sealed" report of 104 names, then the rest of them should be revealed also. Let's get everything out in the open and deal with it so we can finally get on with life after the steroid era. No matter what his accomplishments as commissioner, Bud Selig needs to be tarred and feathered for his absolute lack of leadership during this whole mess.

chasscF1 wrote:

ifittakesforever wrote:

I think two things. First, the MLB players association royally screwed up here. They could have had this whole 104 name report destroyed a couple months after it came out back in 2003, or so I've read. Basically, the players association failed to do their one responsibility, protect the union and the players. Now it's yet another black eye for baseball. I'm not saying that this is necessarily a bad thing, but you would think that they would have wanted it gone as fast as they could, not wait around for the Feds to seize it.

Secondly, if A-Rod's name is going to be leaked from this "sealed" report of 104 names, then the rest of them should be revealed also. Let's get everything out in the open and deal with it so we can finally get on with life after the steroid era. No matter what his accomplishments as commissioner, Bud Selig needs to be tarred and feathered for his absolute lack of leadership during this whole mess.

No one seems to be caring that a crime was committed by someone in the government. These were anonymous tests that were seized by the government for the Barry Bonds case. Only about 10 players that were tested are part of the case, and A-rod is not among them. The legality of seizing the tests is in question right now and will most likely be thrown out for Bond's trial. I don't see why because someone broke the law and leaked information, everyone else should have tests that they though would be anonymous exposed. But I agree that Bud Selig is an idiot and allowed the players union to run things and he is most responsible for the steroid era. How that man continues to pull in 8 figures a year is beyond me.

derFunkenstein wrote:

I did miss the important point that this is confidential stuff being leaked by someone within the government. That's pretty bad news.

PRIME1 wrote:

I blame the fans. Many of the most famous roid stars became heroes to the fans.

So why not use it?

Unless the broadcasters, advertisers or fans take a stand, there is no huge incentive to stop all sorts of bad behavior.

I started losing my love for baseball in the early 90's and the strike in 94 killed whatever was left. So the whole "roid" issue was merely icing on the cake for me.

ifittakesforever wrote:

Blame the fans? That is ridiculous beyond all belief. Does this view apply solely to baseball or also to the NFL? It still irritates me to no end that Shawn Merriman gets suspended for a quarter of a season for steroid use and is still a celebrated player with a commercial contract, yet the baseball steroid users are branded outcasts and villified.

Anyways, the only way to combat PED use in baseball is strong leadership from the commissioner and an effective testing and penalty policy, not blaming the fans.

Skrying wrote:

ifittakesforever wrote:

Blame the fans? That is ridiculous beyond all belief. Does this view apply solely to baseball or also to the NFL? It still irritates me to no end that Shawn Merriman gets suspended for a quarter of a season for steroid use and is still a celebrated player with a commercial contract, yet the baseball steroid users are branded outcasts and villified.

Anyways, the only way to combat PED use in baseball is strong leadership from the commissioner and an effective testing and penalty policy, not blaming the fans.

Shawn Merriman's star has most certainly diminished. Additionally you fail to grasp the impact of him actually being sentenced and caught by the organization. People simply don't care when it seems like the sporting organization is doing the work. They get pissed when the commissioner completely fails all over himself and the congress gets involved.

I do blame the fans for some of it. To be honest I don't think many people would care if the usage was actually out in the open. People like home runs. Baseball was on the death bench till all the records started to look weak... out of nowhere at that. Also, just look at how well received when a star admits to their usage. Bonds is only hated because of his attitude and his constant denial of usage. If he had admitted to it people would still call for the record back but you can bet your ass he'd have a job in the MLB right now.

ifittakesforever wrote:

Another point, don't include Sosa in this mess until you can show me proof or a link that he was using something. There has been no link to his use of anything. Everybody just assumes that since he was hitting home runs at the same time as McGwire, that he was obviously juiced. If you actually watched him over his career, his work with Jeff Pentland and changing in hitting philosophy in order to hit to right field more had more to due with his jump in production. Look at his age during that time, too. It wasn't a chemically induced late career surge, it was during the prime of his career. Okay, rant over.

year - HR - Age
1993 - 25 - 24
1994 - 25 - 25
1995 - 36 - 26
1996 - 40 - 27
1997 - 36 - 28
1998 - 66 - 29
1999 - 63 - 30
2000 - 50 - 31
2001 - 64 - 32

ifittakesforever wrote:

Blame the fans? That is ridiculous beyond all belief. Does this view apply solely to baseball or also to the NFL? .

derFunkenstein wrote:

the fans came back in droves when Andro McGwire and Testosterone Sosa were slugging it out for the single-season homerun mark. Allegedly, Bonds saw what they were up to and said "no way, I'll top it all" and it became a large dick-measuring contenst. Which is amusing given the shrinky-dink associated with steroids.

ifittakesforever wrote:

Another point, don't include Sosa in this mess until you can show me proof or a link that he was using something.

derFunkenstein wrote:

ifittakesforever wrote:

Another point, don't include Sosa in this mess until you can show me proof or a link that he was using something. There has been no link to his use of anything. Everybody just assumes that since he was hitting home runs at the same time as McGwire, that he was obviously juiced. If you actually watched him over his career, his work with Jeff Pentland and changing in hitting philosophy in order to hit to right field more had more to due with his jump in production. Look at his age during that time, too. It wasn't a chemically induced late career surge, it was during the prime of his career. Okay, rant over.

Dude, if a Cardinals fan like me can come to grips with McGwire being on the juice, you can certainly wake yourself up to Slammy Sammy Sosa.

Code: Select all

year - HR - Age
1993 - 25 - 24
1994 - 25 - 25
1995 - 36 - 26
1996 - 40 - 27
1997 - 36 - 28
1998 - 66 - 29
1999 - 63 - 30
2000 - 50 - 31
2001 - 64 - 32

source

There is *no* other explanation on Sosa. He went from a solid 25-40HR hitter to 50-60+ overnight?

PRIME1 wrote:

I blame the fans. Many of the most famous roid stars became heroes to the fans.

So why not use it?

Unless the broadcasters, advertisers or fans take a stand, there is no huge incentive to stop all sorts of bad behavior.

I started losing my love for baseball in the early 90's and the strike in 94 killed whatever was left. So the whole "roid" issue was merely icing on the cake for me.

ifittakesforever wrote:

Merriman's star only diminished because he got hurt this year. His Nike commercial was all over tv during and after his suspension. There was no impact to him getting caught. Neither was there any impact to Rodney Harrison getting caught and suspended. Steroids have been much more prevalent in the NFL, yet no one is blaming their fans for anything.

It wasn't just steroid use that created the offensive monster of the late 90's. Look at the size of stadiums that opened and closed during that time. Baseball in Colorado was like watching an Arena football game. The Astrodome closed, old Busch Stadium brought in the fences, Camden Yards is cozier, Arlington is smaller, even Detroit brought in their fences after their first year or two of Comerica Park.

The Department of Justice unsealed two affidavits by a federal agent concerning people involved with performance-enhancing drugs in baseball, identifying seven more current or former major and minor league players, including the home run slugger Sammy Sosa, who may have used the drugs.

TheEmrys wrote:

I guess you don't care much for personal responsibility, huh?

Captain Ned wrote:

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3896888

It's refreshing to see that Marvin Miller is still as bat-**** crazy as always.

ifittakesforever wrote:

Another point, don't include Sosa in this mess until you can show me proof or a link that he was using something. There has been no link to his use of anything. Everybody just assumes that since he was hitting home runs at the same time as McGwire, that he was obviously juiced. If you actually watched him over his career, his work with Jeff Pentland and changing in hitting philosophy in order to hit to right field more had more to due with his jump in production. Look at his age during that time, too. It wasn't a chemically induced late career surge, it was during the prime of his career. Okay, rant over.

derFunkenstein wrote:

TheEmrys, that's unfair. I think he's rightfully pointing out that pro athletes will do anything to get ahead. I don't think he's advocating it, I think he's looking at it from their point of view.

Of course, I've stuck up for people before and gotten burned (like LovermanOwens or whatever that homewrecker's name was), so I could be wrong here, too.